Comments for Liliana's Virtual Desk http://abcori.net Thoughts from the Executive Minister Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:04:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 Comment on After Atlanta by Norma Jenckes http://abcori.net/2008/02/14/after-atlanta/#comment-114 Norma Jenckes Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:45:22 +0000 http://abcori.net/2008/02/14/after-atlanta/#comment-114 I was glad to come upon this description of the events in Atlanta. I was also there and very moved by the experience. Jimmy Carater is a marvel and he was there constantly and guiding and helping teh meetings. Some great music and preeaching also. I am from Rhode Island but have been working in Cincinnati, Ohio for the past 25 years. I will retire back to RI in South Kingston next year. I would like to meet and be part of a Baptist church that is progressive and interested in the social issues raised in Atlanta. Thanks for this website. I was glad to come upon this description of the events in Atlanta. I was also there and very moved by the experience. Jimmy Carater is a marvel and he was there constantly and guiding and helping teh meetings. Some great music and preeaching also. I am from Rhode Island but have been working in Cincinnati, Ohio for the past 25 years. I will retire back to RI in South Kingston next year. I would like to meet and be part of a Baptist church that is progressive and interested in the social issues raised in Atlanta. Thanks for this website.

]]> Comment on Prayer in America by darin collins http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-97 darin collins Fri, 16 May 2008 18:57:42 +0000 http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-97 In regards to your second point Mr. Dooley I think that your suggestion that governments are established by God and are God's servants is a terribly over-simplified view. Together we could name many governments that I am sure you would agree could hardly be called God-ordained; Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot, the list could go on and on. I do not see how you could defend your broad thesis that governments are established by God when these governments are the example. I presume that you are thinking of Paul's statement iin Romans 13. I suggest that you look to some other passages in the Bible. Try 1 Samuel 8: 1-22 for instance. Israel is clamoring for a King and both Samuel and Yahweh are not very happy about the idea. Read God description of governmental authority. Read the Magnificat in Luke. What do you think Mary is saying about the ruling authorities there? Many scholars think that the story of Jesus casting the Legion of demons out of the Gerasene demoniac is a veiled political statement against Roman Authority. And the four horsemen in Revelation are a description of the cruelty and oppression of the Roman Authority. The Bible is largely critical of governmental authority. to simply submit to any governments policies, especially when those policies are not in keeping with our Christian values is tatamount to idolatry, worshiping the state instead of God. 'Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done...' Jesus taught us to pray. Our ultimate allegiance is to God's kingdom. Finally let me say, Dr. Davalle didn't say let criminal's run free. She called into question the ethics of the Death Penalty. In regards to your second point Mr. Dooley
I think that your suggestion that governments are established by God and are God’s servants is a terribly over-simplified view. Together we could name many governments that I am sure you would agree could hardly be called God-ordained; Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, Pol Pot, the list could go on and on. I do not see how you could defend your broad thesis that governments are established by God when these governments are the example. I presume that you are thinking of Paul’s statement iin Romans 13. I suggest that you look to some other passages in the Bible. Try 1 Samuel 8: 1-22 for instance. Israel is clamoring for a King and both Samuel and Yahweh are not very happy about the idea. Read God description of governmental authority. Read the Magnificat in Luke. What do you think Mary is saying about the ruling authorities there? Many scholars think that the story of Jesus casting the Legion of demons out of the Gerasene demoniac is a veiled political statement against Roman Authority. And the four horsemen in Revelation are a description of the cruelty and oppression of the Roman Authority. The Bible is largely critical of governmental authority. to simply submit to any governments policies, especially when those policies are not in keeping with our Christian values is tatamount to idolatry, worshiping the state instead of God. ‘Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done…’ Jesus taught us to pray. Our ultimate allegiance is to God’s kingdom.

Finally let me say,
Dr. Davalle didn’t say let criminal’s run free. She called into question the ethics of the Death Penalty.

]]> Comment on Prayer in America by darin collins http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-96 darin collins Fri, 16 May 2008 18:46:33 +0000 http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-96 Mr. Dooley, I don't think that Dr. Davalle is suggesting Universal Salvation in the least. She is referencing one of the highest values that we have as Baptists which is 'Soul Freedom.' Early Baptists, especially in this country went on record in sermon and published pamphlet proclaiming that everyone was created by God with the freedom to respond to God as they saw fit and that they should not be influenced or coerced by the government in any way. Jews, Muslims and Atheists should be free to worship (or not) because God created them with that freedom. A faith that is coerced is no faith at all. Many Baptist's were staunch supporters of religious freedom because they came from a context in which they were oppressed from worshipping as they saw fit and they did not want that oppression to continue, for themselves or for others. Dr. Davalle is not suggesting that we not share our faith, but simply stating a fact. We live in a religiously and culturally diverse nation. Historically Baptists have respected other faiths. It is in this context that Dr. Davalle is speaking. And this does not stop us from sharing faith. As for me, I have a hard time believing that God would condemn a faithful and devout Jew or Muslim say... who has loved God and neighbor and attempted throughout life to live faithfully. But that is just me... and I don't think that is Universal Salvation. Mr. Dooley,
I don’t think that Dr. Davalle is suggesting Universal Salvation in the least. She is referencing one of the highest values that we have as Baptists which is ‘Soul Freedom.’ Early Baptists, especially in this country went on record in sermon and published pamphlet proclaiming that everyone was created by God with the freedom to respond to God as they saw fit and that they should not be influenced or coerced by the government in any way. Jews, Muslims and Atheists should be free to worship (or not) because God created them with that freedom. A faith that is coerced is no faith at all. Many Baptist’s were staunch supporters of religious freedom because they came from a context in which they were oppressed from worshipping as they saw fit and they did not want that oppression to continue, for themselves or for others.
Dr. Davalle is not suggesting that we not share our faith, but simply stating a fact. We live in a religiously and culturally diverse nation. Historically Baptists have respected other faiths. It is in this context that Dr. Davalle is speaking. And this does not stop us from sharing faith.
As for me, I have a hard time believing that God would condemn a faithful and devout Jew or Muslim say… who has loved God and neighbor and attempted throughout life to live faithfully. But that is just me… and I don’t think that is Universal Salvation.

]]> Comment on Prayer in America by Richard Dooley http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-93 Richard Dooley Mon, 05 May 2008 00:57:51 +0000 http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-93 "We are imbarked in a war of retaliation; we hope for death penalty to be a way of getting even with harsh criminals, and we claim our privilege to bear arms as our God-given right to destroy those who attack us first. Perhaps you, like me, don’t identify with any of these feelings, but what are we doing about it" I think you are confusing two things. Yes, we are a government of the people by the people, but the actions of our government must be seperated from our actions as individual christians. Goverments are established by God, they are God's servant and they do not bear the sword in vain, they must be free to defend themselves and their laws with all needed force including deadly force. Mercy can and should be shown by governments at certain times but this cannot be the normal mode of operation. Allowing every criminal to run free by offering forgiveness to all would not make for a very safe environment. Even individual christians who must have the normal mode of showing mercy and forgiveness to all, must at times punish wrong doings, otherwise you will neither be fit to be a parent nor any kind of boss. Christians must also be allowed a good conscience to serve in the military and police forces of America where the use of deadly force is part of the job. I shudder to think of a day when christians are not allowed to serve in either. More thoughts... Richard Dooley UBC Newport “We are imbarked in a war of retaliation; we hope for death penalty to be a way of getting even with harsh criminals, and we claim our privilege to bear arms as our God-given right to destroy those who attack us first. Perhaps you, like me, don’t identify with any of these feelings, but what are we doing about it”

I think you are confusing two things. Yes, we are a government of the people by the people, but the actions of our government must be seperated from our actions as individual christians. Goverments are established by God, they are God’s servant and they do not bear the sword in vain, they must be free to defend themselves and their laws with all needed force including deadly force. Mercy can and should be shown by governments at certain times but this cannot be the normal mode of operation. Allowing every criminal to run free by offering forgiveness to all would not make for a very safe environment. Even individual christians who must have the normal mode of showing mercy and forgiveness to all, must at times punish wrong doings, otherwise you will neither be fit to be a parent nor any kind of boss. Christians must also be allowed a good conscience to serve in the military and police forces of America where the use of deadly force is part of the job. I shudder to think of a day when christians are not allowed to serve in either.
More thoughts…
Richard Dooley
UBC Newport

]]> Comment on Prayer in America by Richard Dooley http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-92 Richard Dooley Mon, 05 May 2008 00:55:30 +0000 http://abcori.net/2007/12/14/prayer-in-america/#comment-92 "...more and more people claim not to be religious at all in our Country. Of course we must accept the reality that we don’t live in a Christian Country, and as Baptists we celebrate the diversity." I do not understand what you are trying to say here. If I take the statement at face value, it seems to me you are saying Baptist should celebrate the diversity of darkness and light. John 3:18-20 (NIV) 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[a] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. Unless one is a Universalist, a Baptist Christian whose world view is shaped by the scriptures believes that non-believers will be condemned for eternity. We believe that only because of God's unmerited grace we are saved from God by God and therefore our hearts should mourn the diversity of non-belief in modern America. How can we faithfully carry out the great commission if we have no heart for the lost? How can we have a heart for the lost unless we get over this politically correct mindset of the god of diversity, "I'm okay - you are okay, it doesn't matter what you believe"? We shall do nothing for the diverse lost souls of America if we do not see them as lost. We must love our neighbor enough to tell them they must repent and believe. We must love our our neighbor enough to tell them what sin is, that we are all sinners and how a just and Holy God demands blood as a payment for sin. We must love our neighbor enough to explain that that blood payment was made by the only perfect and innocent man that ever lived and that by believing in Him we can have imputed to us both His righteousness and His payment for sin through His death on the cross. My thoughts for what it is worth. Richard Dooley UBC Newport “…more and more people claim not to be religious at all in our Country. Of course we must accept the reality that we don’t live in a Christian Country, and as Baptists we celebrate the diversity.”
I do not understand what you are trying to say here. If I take the statement at face value, it seems to me you are saying Baptist should celebrate the diversity of darkness and light.
John 3:18-20 (NIV)
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.[a] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Unless one is a Universalist, a Baptist Christian whose world view is shaped by the scriptures believes that non-believers will be condemned for eternity. We believe that only because of God’s unmerited grace we are saved from God by God and therefore our hearts should mourn the diversity of non-belief in modern America. How can we faithfully carry out the great commission if we have no heart for the lost? How can we have a heart for the lost unless we get over this politically correct mindset of the god of diversity, “I’m okay - you are okay, it doesn’t matter what you believe”? We shall do nothing for the diverse lost souls of America if we do not see them as lost. We must love our neighbor enough to tell them they must repent and believe. We must love our our neighbor enough to tell them what sin is, that we are all sinners and how a just and Holy God demands blood as a payment for sin. We must love our neighbor enough to explain that that blood payment was made by the only perfect and innocent man that ever lived and that by believing in Him we can have imputed to us both His righteousness and His payment for sin through His death on the cross.
My thoughts for what it is worth.
Richard Dooley
UBC Newport

]]> Comment on On being a Baptist by rich chamberlin http://abcori.net/2007/11/05/on-being-a-baptist/#comment-28 rich chamberlin Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:43:30 +0000 http://abcori.net/2007/11/05/on-being-a-baptist/#comment-28 Loved meeting Dr. Shurden. Thanks to our BHC. Perhaps our diversity reflects a greater than average willingness to change instead of regimentation. Is not change the core of Christian life? Loved meeting Dr. Shurden. Thanks to our BHC. Perhaps our diversity reflects a greater than average willingness to change instead of regimentation. Is not change the core of Christian life?

]]> Comment on Communications by rich chamberlin http://abcori.net/2007/10/10/communications/#comment-27 rich chamberlin Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:36:31 +0000 http://abcori.net/2007/10/10/communications/#comment-27 Just discovered this web update after holidays. Interactive is great. Look for link to ours {Pawtucket} soon. Just discovered this web update after holidays. Interactive is great. Look for link to ours {Pawtucket} soon.

]]> Comment on Atlanta by richard chamberlin http://abcori.net/2008/01/07/atlanta/#comment-24 richard chamberlin Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:44:28 +0000 http://abcori.net/2008/01/07/atlanta/#comment-24 American Baptists keep alive the spiritual values shown by our own Rodger Williams. This is a great service, yet also a well kept secret. What we lack is his courage to take bold action. That is always the hard part. Loyalty to Christ before loyalty to man made organizations may be one good place to start. American Baptists keep alive the spiritual values shown by our own Rodger Williams. This is a great service, yet also a well kept secret. What we lack is his courage to take bold action. That is always the hard part. Loyalty to Christ before loyalty to man made organizations may be one good place to start.

]]> Comment on Atlanta by Liliana http://abcori.net/2008/01/07/atlanta/#comment-21 Liliana Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:37:39 +0000 http://abcori.net/2008/01/07/atlanta/#comment-21 We don't have official representatives to Atlanta because there will not be any business there. I'll be there, and a bunch of Rhode Islanders. Stan Lemons will co-facilitate a workshop. I hope we'll represent ABCORI well. We don’t have official representatives to Atlanta because there will not be any business there.
I’ll be there, and a bunch of Rhode Islanders. Stan Lemons will co-facilitate a workshop. I hope we’ll represent ABCORI well.

]]> Comment on Atlanta by Daniel Cottrell http://abcori.net/2008/01/07/atlanta/#comment-20 Daniel Cottrell Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:29:26 +0000 http://abcori.net/2008/01/07/atlanta/#comment-20 Baptists in biblical/prayerful discussion is a good thing. If only we could all be in Atlanta. Will ABCORI have any representatives there? Our son is now in a Southern Baptist seminary...much to this Andover Newton graduate's chagrin! But if I dare suggest that we are a diverse denomination it is essential that we include in our fellowship all Baptist voices willing to engage in serious conversation. Baptists in biblical/prayerful discussion is a good thing. If only we could all be in Atlanta. Will ABCORI have any representatives there?
Our son is now in a Southern Baptist seminary…much to this Andover Newton graduate’s chagrin! But if I dare suggest that we are a diverse denomination it is essential that we include in our fellowship all Baptist voices willing to engage in serious conversation.

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